If you are a follower of Jesus, He prayed for you even before He went to the cross. Jesus prayed for every single person who ever has and ever will put their faith in Him. In John 17:20-23, we read that He prayed this, “That we would show the world who we are… we are ONE!”
It doesn’t take long to look around and realize, we’re doing a terrible job. Some researchers say there are around 50,000 denominations of Christianity. I don’t know how many there really are, but I do know this: There are a lot of them.
Now, I’m not anti-denominations. Actually, I think it’s beautiful how so many different churches and denominations have different pieces of the puzzle. Here’s the problem though…. We humans… we are pretty messed up. In fact, we usually like to focus more on our differences than what we have in common. Usually, we are more concerned about being right than we are about improving relationships.
I do this sometimes when I argue with my wife. Notice I said sometimes…. 
Sometimes when I’m in an argument with Andrea, I find myself more passionate about proving my point, about being right, than I am about nurturing our relationship. I get convinced that the relationship will be better if she can just see how “right I am,” and come on over to “my side.” Sounds ridiculous right? Right? Of course it is! Sometimes my point is right, and sometimes it is wrong. Either way, maybe I’ll win the battle, but I’ll lose the war…
Notice how denominations often choose to name themselves by their distinctives: Baptists emphasize believers baptism by full-immersion, Pentecostals limelight the gift of tongues, Presbyterians point to their form of government (they are led by presbyters). Personally, I believe all three of these movements have incredible things to say.
This June, Ekklesia is joining with over 1,750 churches around the world in a movement that is trying to work toward being an answer to Jesus’ prayer. The movement is called “One Prayer.” Here is the website: 2009.oneprayer.com
Here’s how you can be involved:
1. Pray for unity in the Body of Christ.
2. Pray that you and I will focus more on what we have in common in Christ than where we differ.
3. Pray that we will be more concerned with our relationship than about “being right” in regards to non-essential/debatable matters.
4. Fast. We fast every Wednesday until 5PM. No food, only water. We would love for you to join us!
5. Get some good unity-building blog discussion going here.
Here are some discussion starters:
1. Tell us about a time when you messed this thing up. It’s always best to talk about that plank in our own eyes Whether the plank is there now, or it used to be there, we’d really appreciate you sharing a story… Your story can be about a religious argument you got in, a time when you disrespected another denomination, or just any time when you were more concerned about “being right” than the relationship at hand.
2. Talk about something you really admire in a denomination or church that you do not belong to.
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Tuesday, 9. June 2009
1.) Using God’s Word as a guide, it seems to me, that my “plank” is not truly coming to repentance. In Luke 13 vs 1-5 Jesus does seem to emphasize repentance as a requirement for salvation. Even though I received Jesus as my savior 26 years ago, I am such a wretched, cursed man, that I have come to the conclusion that I have not truly repented of my sins. O Lord, help me to repent.
2.) As far as churches go, I don’t think that there has been any since AD 313, that are not apostate in some ways. There was false teaching and apostasy in the early Church of course, but when emperor Constantine legalized Christianity, enlisted Christians in the empire’s wars, implemented church building programs and incorporated the Greek demagogue-oratory sermon format, precedents were established that have led us to “having a form of godliness, but denying its power”. Even though Ekklesia is under this tyranny, I think this church has potential as a covenant community blessed by God, but much needs to happen before we get to the promised land, for the scripture says:
“For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: And if it first begin in us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the Gospel of God?
And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear.”
1 Pet 4 vs 17-18
Friday, 12. June 2009
THE BATTLE OVER TRUTH FOR OUR YOUTH
Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word. Psalm 119:9
Believers throughout every generation have experienced manifold problems in their attempts to live for Christ. Although circumstances and situations may vary greatly over millennia, God has nevertheless provided His remedy, which is both timeless and completely sufficient: “by taking heed thereto according to thy word.”
When God has provided the solution, it doesn’t take special insight to recognize that Satan, God’s adversary, will make God’s Word the chief focus of his strategy of subversion. It began in the Garden of Eden, when the Serpent, in dialogue with Eve, cunningly seduced her into reconsidering what God had commanded: “Yea, hath God said…?” Dialogues have a way of subverting God’s absolutes by either adding erroneous content or subtracting critical truth. That has been Satan’s amazingly effective game plan throughout the ages as he has “blinded the minds of them which believe not” and shipwrecked the faith of some who believed (2 Corinthians 4:4; 1 Timothy 1:18-19).
The “Yea, hath God said…?” tactic is nearly always followed by a direct rejection of Scripture, as took place in the beginning (“Ye shall not surely die” -Genesis 3:4) and opens the way for God’s Word to be denigrated, scorned, distorted, mocked, lied about, and so forth. Although the Bible has been assaulted for thousands of years, Scripture tells us, and observation confirms, that the offensive against the Word will be unprecedented in the last days (2 Timothy 3:1; 4:3-4; 1 Timothy 4:1-2).
My personal observation of the Adversary’s strategy began as a biblical Christian some three decades ago, beginning with my work with Dave Hunt in exposing the cults (Cult Explosion and The God Makers documentary films), and shortly thereafter, alerting the church to cultic beliefs and practices that had crept in among Christian fellowships (The Seduction of Christianity). For what it’s worth, I’ve spent more than a quarter of a century observing and writing about trends within evangelical Christianity. Let me identify the tactics that I believe best exemplify Satan’s assaults on the Word in these last days before Christ’s return.
I was a Roman Catholic before being born again. Jesus said to Nicodemus, “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God,” neither can he “enter the kingdom of God” (John 3:3, 5). I was both blind and separated from the kingdom of God until my spiritual rebirth, which Jesus declared was imperative: “Ye must be born again” (v.7). Although Jesus made it a “must,” many if not most evangelicals today pay little heed to what He commanded, and they consequently have accepted the more than one billion Roman Catholics as “brothers and sisters in Christ.” Among their numerous distortions of the teachings of Scripture, many Catholics profess to being “born again” based upon their having been baptized as infants. The Church of Rome similarly accepts all baptized non-Catholic Christians as “separated brethren.”
Thirty years ago, some young adult evangelicals confronted me with the fact that I was not their “brother in Christ” and explained to me what the Scriptures taught, which alone could make that relationship with Jesus a reality. Today, the influence of organizations such as Evangelicals and Catholics Together, Promise Keepers, the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, most parachurch ministries on college campuses, the evangelical-supported Catholic movie The Passion of the Christ, and the rapid growth of ecumenism have created an atmosphere of accepting Catholics as believers. Consequently, I (and many others that I know) have been rebuked by evangelicals for pointing out that the Roman Catholic Church has a gospel that is contrary to the Scriptures—and therefore can save no one. Moreover, we’ve been told that we have offended “fellow Catholic Christians” by witnessing to them. This is an unprecedented latter-day development among evangelicals, especially those in Christian universities and colleges.
Today’s “twenty-something” age group, give or take a few years, has become a targeted generation by the Adversary in ways that are unparalleled in modern church history. This objective is in keeping with the undermining of the Word of God by diluting, even denying, its authority. What makes the strategy particularly insidious is that it’s an inside job, i.e., it’s being perpetrated by those who claim to be evangelicals or who at least have evangelical roots. Referred to as the Emerging Church Movement, it’s a development that is attempting to reach today’s post-modern culture for Christ by “reinventing Christianity,” making it more accommodating to the attitudes of young adults. For example, since the post-modern generation is characterized by a disdain for authority, whatever seems to suggest authority, such as preaching or teaching, is downplayed or revamped as “conversation.” (See TBC 1/08 ,3/08 ,8/08 ,12/08 )
Sound doctrine, which 2 Timothy 4:3 tells us will not be endured in the last days, is antithetical to this movement. Its most prolific author, Brian McLaren, demonstrates this throughout his writings: “The church latched on to that old doctrine of original sin like a dog to a stick, and before you knew it, the whole gospel got twisted around it. Instead of being God’s big message of saving love for the whole world, the gospel became a little bit of secret information on how to solve the pesky legal problem of original sin.”1 Elsewhere he says, “I don’t think we’ve got the gospel right yet. What does it mean to be saved?…None of us have arrived at orthodoxy.”2 On the contrary, I know a number of five and six-year olds who have “arrived at orthodoxy” by understanding and believing the simple gospel.
The Emerging Church Movement comes closer to fulfilling Paul’s prophetic warning to the Ephesian elders (Acts 20: 28-31) than any other recent trend of which I’m aware. Indeed Emergent leaders are “speaking perverse things” and “drawing away disciples after themselves.” TBC has received numerous letters from parents and evangelical pastors who find their young people seeking out emergent churches for the “new” experiences, which they offer in abundance: religious art (primarily impressionistic images of “Jesus”), “biblical” films, rituals based upon Catholic/Orthodox liturgy, “community,” personal relationships, contemplative spirituality and mysticism (some include yoga), Bible “dialogues,” ecumenical interaction with “people of faith,” a social gospel, plans to save the planet, restore the kingdom, and so forth.
The “Yea, hath God said…?” strategy has been very successful in undermining the critical belief in the sufficiency of the Word of God. Although the Bible claims to be sufficient for “all things that pertain unto life and godliness” (2 Peter 1:3), many Christians who profess to believe the Bible no longer regard it as sufficient. This is particularly evident regarding counseling. Many evangelical churches have become a major referral source for secular psychotherapists; shepherds more often than not are committing their sheep to such God-denying hirelings for resolving life’s issues.
This may be Satan’s most cunning scheme in his assault against the Word and the Body of Christ. It is a process of seduction and intimidation. Psychological counseling has been advertized as a scientific endeavor that will help resolve the mental, emotional, and behavioral problems that Christians encounter in their daily life. Nothing could be further from the truth! It is neither scientific nor is it helpful (see Psychology and the Church: Critical Questions, Crucial Answers). Furthermore, its more than 500 psychotherapeutic concepts and methods are contradictory to biblical truth. Yet believers, especially pastors, have been intimidated by the myth that counseling is for professionals only and that only those with academic training are qualified to address a person’s mental and emotional problems. Not only is that a rejection of what the church has practiced for two-thousand years, it is at odds with current research showing that professionals do not possess demonstrably superior therapeutic skills compared with nonprofessionals. Moreover, studies reveal that professional mental health education, training, and experience are not necessary prerequisites in order to be an effective and God-ordained helper.
Foundationally, psychotherapy and the teachings of the Bible are diametrically opposed to each other. Psychology teaches that man has within himself, that is, his self, all that he needs for his mental and emotional wellbeing. His problems, therefore, stem from issues external to himself. The Bible declares that man has a sinful nature that he himself cannot change. His heart is the problem, for from it originates every sort of evil (Mark 7:21-23). When attempts are made by Christians to combine psychology with the teachings of Scripture, it is, wittingly or unwittingly, the addition of “a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death” (Proverbs 14:12) and a variation of the “Yea, hath God said…?” dialogue, resulting in the corruption of God’s Word.
The influence of psychology has spread throughout the church today like a plague. The Apostle Paul prophesied that the root lie of psychotherapy would prevail in the days before our Lord’s return: “This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves” (2 Timothy 3:1-2). This humanistic cornerstone of self-love has become a new doctrine within evangelical Christianity, taught from many of the most popular pulpits. Sermons more often than not quote psychologists and teach their unbiblical psychological concepts for credibility. National evangelical conferences that do not include a prominent psychologist as an “expert” on problems of living are few and far between.
So-called Christian psychologists are often better known and more respected by evangelicals than preachers and teachers. In fact, the most prominent and most influential evangelical in America is not an evangelist, not a preacher, not a Bible teacher–but a psychologist: Dr. James Dobson. He heads up a list of “counselors” who integrate psychology with the Bible and have become household names among Christians, including Gary Smalley, John Trent, Henry Cloud, David Stoop, Larry Crabb, John Townsend, Les and Leslie Parrot, H. Norman Wright, and on and on. Chief among organizations that undermine Scripture by mixing it with psychotherapy is the evangelical-founded American Association of Christian Counselors (AACC). It recently produced The Bible For Hope, a “newly revised counselor’s Bible,” which features 116 theme articles—most of them contributed by those with psychological counseling backgrounds, from psychiatrists to clinical psychologists and to marriage and family counselors.
Although the AACC boasts “50,000 members and growing stronger every day!”, it pales in comparison to another entity of great influence that is producing hundreds of thousands of young people who are taught to integrate psychology with Scripture: Christian colleges and universities. The second most popular career choice among evangelical institutions of higher learning is the pseudoscience of psychology. The “Yea, hath God said…?” subversion of Scripture rages on today, with accepted “truths” from Freud, Jung, Maslow, Rogers, and a host of other atheists, humanists, and anti-Christians.
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Wow…Doesn’t that sound like this church?
And this is just the beginning…
We are in the last days….the very last days… Repent!
Tuesday, 16. June 2009
Passiflora101, your post has valid points within it, but it looks like something that you didn’t write with us in mind. Was it copied from elsewhere? Did you look around our site to see whether it might apply to us?
I agree that the Word, which is Jesus Christ, is in His divine power wholly sufficient for all living and that He is more powerful than therapy or medication. However, I don’t think that analytical and systematic application of the Word to the mental and emotional spheres is a bad thing. When done by Christians in a Christian context, psychology is an extension of God’s healing in our lives.
God bless you Passiflora101.
Tuesday, 23. June 2009
Yes Alex, I did copy it, but I certainly DID have this church in mind. And I have looked around this site, and I just posted on the “Praise and Rebuke” page. Once you read my post there, perhaps you will further understand where I am coming from. You may also wish to read my two new posts on the “iFart Radio Interview” blog. But I suspect all of my posts won’t be “approved by the moderator,” which I believe is Chris, for I have nothing but rebuke for him and see him as a heretic. And as a true Christian, I am commanded by scripture to expose such heresy. So, without further ado…
Isn’t Andrea majoring in psychology? I do realize, if I remember correctly, that Andrea went through Seminary as well. No offense to Andrea, but she would have been better off to stop there, except that I hope she doesn’t intend to take a pastoral position, since the Bible clearly states that women in church are not to have authority over men, or take on a leadership role other than that of a perhaps a Deaconess. In God’s design for men was to be that of Leader, Provider, and Protector, and for women, it was to be a helpmate and mother. God laid those foundations when He cursed Adam & Eve – like it or not. (Most people don’t particularly like it, by the way, and a battle has been waged between the sexes ever since.)
Pop-psychology is man-centered, which is waste of people’s time and resources – and is more Emergent Church blather. It is an attempt by fallible humans to reach a state of “wellness” through other fallible humans. Anyone who uses pop-psychology in church denies the very SUFFICIENCY of scripture, which you agree, Alex, is WHOLLY sufficient.
Pop-psychology is SELF-oriented – “it’s all about me, me, me, and understanding my relationship to others.”
That is far different than realizing that you’re just a wretched sinner, totally lost in depravity, unable to reconcile your fallibility on your own, and in desperate need of a Savior who not only saves you for eternal life, but instructs you in knowledge and wisdom, right thinking and the business of daily living.
If you read Matthew 6:1-34, Jesus is teaching about many things, the last of which is about the cure for anxiety. His closing statements in that chapter are, “But seek FIRST His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. So do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.” (Mt 6: 33-34 NAS)
Our relationship to God should come first. It should be more important than any other relationship, including our family and even ourSELVES. We must die to ourselves and our old way of thinking. If we get that right, everything else falls into place.
God’s Word is infallible, inerrant, and wholly sufficient.
I once dated a psychologist who also claimed the name of Christ. On the second date, he wanted me in bed. What does that say about his beliefs? Were they God-centered, or were they fallible, depraved man-centered?
You wrote, “I agree that the Word, which is Jesus Christ, is in His divine power wholly sufficient for all living and that He is more powerful than therapy or medication.” AGREED.
But then you wrote, “However, I don’t think that analytical and systematic application of the Word to the mental and emotional spheres is a bad thing.”
The word “however” is normally used to express an opposing opinion, contrary to a previous statement you made, but you did not do that.
Instead, you confirmed your first statement – that you didn’t think the analytical and systematic application of the Word was a “BAD” thing. Did you mean “good” thing?
If you believe, as you stated, that psychology is an extension of God’s healing in our lives, then you do not believe that scripture is “wholly sufficient.” You are saying we need more – as an extension.
“Mental or emotional” problems are, in truth, spiritual problems and are a result of man’s rebellious, sinful nature. If, as the Bible instructs, we are to conform to the likeness of Christ, would we have any mental or emotional problems? Did He?
Aren’t we to be “in” the world, but not “of” it? Are we to conform to Him or conform to the world?
Worse yet, are we to conform HIM into our worldly, SELF-centered, Man-centered thinking? (That’s what happens when someone distorts scripture, pulls it out of context, or tries to give it mulitple interpretations – as Chris did in he “Praise & Rebuke” sermon.)
If any such personal counseling is to be done, it should be:
1) Based solely on the scriptures, not psychology, for man is helpless to fix himself. He does not have the mind of God who can. To know the mind of God, we must examine what He has said to us through His Word. (It is ridiculous, as someone here said in the “iFart Radio Interview” blog – “I’m not sure, but I believe God spoke to me and said…” and then come up with what she “thinks” he said. That is “SELF-centered” thinking. The ONLY way to know what God is saying is to read His Word.)
2) Be performed by a “Biblical Counselor,” (one who has a degree in “Biblical Counseling,” or better still, an ordained pastor.
3) There should be NO set fee for resolving someone’s problems, as instruction in God’s Word has always been based on giving according to one’s own heart, unlike psychology, which charges an arm and a leg and a half a kidney. “Knock and the door will be opened.” There’s no prohibitive lock.
Look at noted psychologists Barbara DeAngelis and John Grey for example, who are no longer married to each other. How successful in God’s design for marriage were they? Grey writes a book – “Men are from Mars – Women are from Venus.” DeAngelis writes books as well. They make lots of money at selling their latest ideas about relationships, which obviously hasn’t worked for them. Why? They’re just as fallible as the rest of us mere mortals.
Someone made a joke about Grey’s book, stating, “Men are from Earth. Women are from Earth. Deal with it.”
I say, “Men are from God. Women are from God. Deal with it.”
I don’t think most people realize what a cataclysmic event The Fall of Man really was, nor how it relates to us today, other than on a superficial level. We were plunged into darkness and a separation from God, and the ONLY way out is through Jesus Christ – the Light of the World, the Bright Morning Star, the Alpha and the Omega.
Did you know that psychologists and psychiatrists have more “emotional and mental” problems, have higher divorce and suicide rates that average people? Why is that? They are spiritually bankrupt.
I can tell you also that Christians who divorce do so also because of their sin nature – when they are out of alignment with Christ’s teachings.
There are so many pastors who do not preach the Word very well; they are often dull or they misinterpret it, and some teachers are outright charlatans who purposefully take scripture out of context, totally distorting truth. Others do not go that deep into scripture to extract it in it’s fullness and richness. Further, not very many laypeople even bother to crack open their Bibles and delve into it themselves – especially to see if what the pastor is saying is actually true and correct.
Combine these two problems and you begin to understand why there are so many problems among Christians, as well as unbelievers shaking their heads at us. The majority of Christians go to church on Sundays, listen, and then spend the rest of the week behaving as pagans. Three days later, you ask them what last Sunday’s sermon was about, they can’t remember. Instead of a daily examination of the Word and an application of it in their lives, they put it aside until next Sunday. These are “Easy Believers” who claim the name of Christ as SAVIOR, but not as LORD – the One who directs their thoughts, words and actions.
Christ is our Wonderful Counselor! But how many people actually know that and allow Him to really work in their lives?
Christianity and psychology are counter-intuitive.
I will have more comments about the “One Prayer” site later, and the problems I see with the idea of “unity.” It’s not really anything new, just whackier than before. My father’s ancestors were early voices such a movement, a very well-known ecumenical movement back in the 1800’s.
Tuesday, 23. June 2009
When I used the word “however”, the longer meaning of it was that I was at first establishing something we’d agree on, and then I was saying something on which you’d disagree with me.
Saying that scripture is wholly sufficient, well, I think you’ve taken it out of context. If that were defined how you say, then going to church, being in community, speaking, listening, thinking, breathing, praying, fasting, etc., would also not be necessary for living. I think counseling is absolutely needed sometimes (in fact Proverbs agrees, so this isn’t really just my own thought) and this is important.
If you want to get to know us more, you should come to our church. There’s a free lunch after the sermon and we’d love to have you there.
Wednesday, 24. June 2009
Also, while pop-psychology, as you say, may be man- or self-oriented, Christian psychology is Christ-oriented and Biblically based and is an example of seeking wise counsel and sound instruction.
One more thing… regardless of whether we or you or both of us are wrong, we should be full of love for each other and should pray over every aspect of our dialogue, from our tones, to our words, to our attitudes.
“I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth. I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.
Thursday, 25. June 2009
First I’d like to start off by adressing some questions of this blog. I am an administrator of this blog in fact I run the website for Ekklesia. There was a question on another post saying that a commentor named chris was actually the pastor of this church. I assure you it was not. I looked at ip addresses and emails and in actually that chris had a image of what seemed to be himself and two kids. Also there were some remarks I don’t remember from who saying their posts would be moderated. As far as im concerned that’s the quickest way to kill a blog. So unless there are some heinous things being said or curse words or it is spam, it will eventually be posted. I do apologize for any delays as I do have a regular job and can not always get to approvals in a timely fashion. The only reason I adress this is because I know that once a website gets a reputation of moderating comments it can kill that site as far as participation is concerned.
We want a lively discussion going about topics and whether positive or negative I realize everyones point of view needs to be respected. All I ask is not to comment with curse words or ugliness.
On to this post now. I’ve struggled with this many times in the past. It’s hard not to try and get my point of view across as the “truth”. But I am always humbled to remember that there is only one truth in this world and that is Christ. Personally I don’t believe any one church has it figured out completely. As I also believe that there can be individuals in any church that follows Christ have part of the truth. Also realizing I will never have the complete truth yet constantly trying too seek the complete truth. The walk with Jesus is a personal one and no matter what you are taught by whom, it is our personal responsibility to accept or reject that idea as our own. We will be responsible for that decision before God.
P.s. I find the video at the top if this post hilarious and containing truth.
P.s.s. Passiflora I think you asked which interpretation of the bible a certain passage came from and I believe it is NIV. At least that is the interpretation I point to with the script on this blog that converts bible passages to links. Like this. James 1:1-10
Friday, 26. June 2009
Just not understanding where you’re coming from, Alex.
You said, “I agree that the Word, which is Jesus Christ, is in His divine power wholly sufficient for all living and that He is more powerful than therapy or medication. However, I don’t think that analytical and systematic application of the Word to the mental and emotional spheres is a bad thing.”
Now you explain the use of your word, “however.”
“When I used the word “however”, the longer meaning of it was that I was at first establishing something we’d agree on, and then I was saying something on which you’d disagree with me.
Saying that scripture is wholly sufficient, well, I think you’ve taken it out of context. If that were defined how you say, then going to church, being in community, speaking, listening, thinking, breathing, praying, fasting, etc., would also not be necessary for living. I think counseling is absolutely needed sometimes (in fact Proverbs agrees, so this isn’t really just my own thought) and this is important.”
Hmmm…. First, I don’t think your second statement, beginning with “however,” was something I would disagree with. I don’t think it’s a bad thing either. I agree with both statements. So what you are saying now doesn’t make any more sense than those two comments.
You then say, “Saying that scripture is wholly sufficient, well, I think you’ve taken it out of context. If that were defined how you say, then going to church, being in community, speaking, listening, thinking, breathing, praying, fasting, etc., would also not be necessary for living.”
What is that supposed to mean? How do all those things apply to the concept of the sufficiency of scripture as being the way to resolve our problems?
Do you know what the term “sufficiency of scripture” means?
I think you’ve taken it out of context, Alex. For what is the purpose or use of the Word? Why would you think that my definition of the sufficiency of scripture has anything to do with all those other things you brought up, like attending church or breathing? I really don’t get where you are coming from.
Do you understand the difference between the terms “Christian Psychology” and “Biblical Counseling” a;so known as “Christian Counseling?”
Do you think the likes of Freud or Maslow or Dobson is wiser than God?
If you are going to make reference to a particular scripture, such as the one you’ve made about Proverbs, and the other scripture you posted, would you please cite the verse? I find it helpful to see how people interpret them.
I don’t live in Michigan, so I can’t very well visit your church. And if I did happen to make it there, it’s not a church I would become a member of. But thanks for the invite.
Friday, 26. June 2009
Hi Jon~
Thanks for the heads up on being the moderator here. I feared since this represented Chris’ church, that he was the moderator, and my posts run contrary to his teachings.
I’m not very computer savvy – don’t even know how websites are created! But I’ve never felt that my posts were delayed, so maybe someone else brought that up?
I would hope that people would not cuss here, too, but then again, I can remember when the word “fart” was considered obscene language. Nowadays, it’s the norm. Kind of like abortion rights and gay rights. So no telling what to expect here.
Which leads me back to the scriptures that read, “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires…” 2 Tim 4:3… and …”Teach and preach these principles. If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.” 1 Tim 6:1-5
Whew! If that doesn’t apply here, nothing does!
“Now, O Lord GOD, You are God, and YOUR WORDS ARE TRUTH, and You have promised this good thing to Your servant.” 2 Sam 7:8
“So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed HIM, ‘If you continue in MY word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and YOU WILL KNOW THE TRUTH, and the TRUTH WILL MAKE YOU FREE!’ ”
You are correct, Jon, in that YOU are responsible for your salvation, and examining the Word.
But here’s the thing. If you don’t examine the scriptures, then you subject yourself to heresy. And if you follow the teachings of a heretic, then you are on the path to destruction, for the Bible is very clear that he is headed for Hell. You both will fall into the pit.
What do I think of this video? More course jesting and silly talk, mocking the divine nature of Father and Son. Why do I say that? I know what the Bible’s TRUTH about the matter.
“But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.” Eph 5: 3-4
Jesus was mocked quite a bit before they led Him to the cross and crucified Him. But…
“Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.” Gal 6:7
All the answers to our corrupt thinking are right there in B.I.B.L.E – the Believer’s Instructions Before Leaving Earth.
About the NIV… I was thinking I had checked that version when trying to locate the verse Chris was using in the Praise and Rebuke blog. But now I see that it’s not on the list at my favorite Bible search website. Figures. So maybe that’s where he got the word, “revealed.” Now I understand why the rest of the verse was mistranslated from “deceitful kisses” to “multiple kisses.” Not the first time I’ve seen poor translations in that Bible. It was compiled to be “the most acceptable to many denominations,” which to me, translates to compromising God’s Word. If I remember correctly, their translation of Exodus 20 is really bad when interpreting the 2nd Commandment.
Can one of you type that out for me? I’d like to show you a comparison. Maybe I can find the NIV on anothe site I don’t trust the NIV – it’s way out of sync with other Bibles.
Well, thanks, Jon. You’ve enlightened me on a couple of things.
Friday, 26. June 2009
Pat Harling… Ahhhhh yes. Now I remember you. I remember you bought a book for me about growing healthy plants to help produce healthy people, but I had to leave before you could get it to me. It’s all coming back now. Wow, reading your blog posts and now thinking about the time I met you, the conversation we had… that’s a trip. You are a very sweet lady! Really, I mean that. I remember your kindness and encouraging words to me as I was heading out to Africa. So what church are you a part of now days?
Friday, 26. June 2009
The church I am attending now has been mentioned in another blog here – quite extensively. Like so many Christians, I was lost in a world of dysfunctional, demented doctrines and in and out of dead churches for a long time, and it allowed me to be an “easy believer.” All I understood was the “softer side” of Christ – His “liberal” forgiving side. It diminished His OMNIPOTENCE. It allowed me not to see the depths of my own sin. I was not a very good representative of Christ, to say the least. My relationship to Christ was weak. My sanctification process was a series of “start, stutter and stall, start, stutter and stall.” I was still DEEPLY wrapped in all kinds of sin.
It wasn’t until God led me to the church I am in now did I begin to really understand His Word, and feel the weight of my own sin, which is why I am moved to expose to other sheep the false teachings of many, through the use of HIS Word, and the powerful anointing of my well-known pastor.
Since you were on your way to Africa, I told you of a book I had on sustainable agriculture – a method of organic food production that can be done just about anywhere in the world, and without the use of heavy equipment. This production method of raising crops, using less water and less space, is particularly advantageous in Third World countries where resources are scarce.
If I remember correctly, I lost your e-mail address or phone number, and was unable to reach you before you went to New York and then onto Africa. I knew it was too late when I received your first e-mail from New York. But I did buy you a copy of it. I figured I would just keep it, since it’s an updated edition, and it has always been my goal to do a little small-scale agriculture one day.
If you’re interested in purchasing a copy of it for yourself, it’s called, “HOW TO GROW MORE VEGETABLES*…(and fruits, nuts, berries, grains, and other crops)…*than you ever thought possible on less land than you can imagine,” by John Jeavons. (Looooong title!)
Here’s the link to his website, where you can find the book if you’re interested. Notice the amazing photo, and how much is being grown in such a limited space. Healthy food production at it’s best – grown the bio-intensive way.
http://www.bountifulgardens.org/
I wanted to get the book for you to take to Africa as I believe it is better to teach a man to fish than to give a man a fish. If you give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. If you teach a man to fish, he will eat for a lifetime. I thought it would be an excellent addition to ministering the Gospel to the lost in the very poor countries in the world.
We seem to pour billions into missionary work to provide food to the world, with little improvement in their standard of health and living conditions, when all it really takes is a little understanding and some seed and a bit water. A remarkable addition to preaching the Word to a world gone bad, when you really think about it.
We are living in a world of abundance here in the States, an abundance we take for granted. But the day will come when “corporate agri-business” will either have to change, or come to an end, for large-scale food production is not sustainable.
Few realize it, but already our fields are depleted of the NATURAL life-sustaining MICRO-nutrients, like copper, molybdenum, manganese, and such, and are replaced by only by the SYNTHETIC reproductions of the MAJOR nutrients – nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium – commonly know as NPK fertilizers. And lest we forget all the toxic pesticides that our soils and ground waters (aquifers,) have been laden with.
If you ever wonder why it is there is so much cancer, heart disease, and all other kinds of diseases, one only need to look no further than our soil. It is either life-giving, or it is dead and diseased. Healthy soil produced healthy plants, which in turn, produces healthy people. That’s what you are remembering. But it’s pretty simple, huh?
And when you think about it, doesn’t the Bible predict a sharp increase in pesitilence, (disease,) and famine as some of the signs of His return?
People STILL haven’t figured out the human condition of degeneration. And I believe, with all my heart, that if we to accurately follow the teachings of the Bible, God would be more patient with us and not need to return so soon. I truly believe His Second Coming will happen within my lifetime, or at least, my daughter’s.
One only need to look at the condition of the global economy to understand that we are teetering on the edge of a total collapse, which will then trigger a global war. And we are already hearing many “rumors of wars”…
And I might add, that it appears we are also moving toward that “one world government” (NAFTRA, United Nations,) and “one world religion” (unity!) as predicted in the Bible, as well as seeing a sharp increase in false teachings.
Now I wish to address this “One Prayer” topic of unity.
The cry for unity is not new. As I stated earlier, my father’s ancestors were early voices one such movement – The Restoration Movement. His name was Mulkey. Here’s one of the links to his ancestors:
http://www.therestorationmovement.com/mulkeymtnghse.htm
This was the birth of what is known as the very ecumenical (unity-diriven) “Disciples of Christ” church – often called “The Christian Church,” and kin to the “Church of Christ.” So much for unity!
My mother always called the DoC I was raised in a “liberal church.” The evidence just how liberal it is today can be seen here:
http://www.disciples.org/OfficeoftheGeneralMinisterandPresident/NewsandUpdates/SharonWatkinsNationalPrayerServicePart1/tabid/489/Default.aspx
The above link is the current General Minister & President of Disciples of Christ church, Rev. Dr. Sharon Watkins, delivering the sermon at the National Prayer Service for the Presidential Inauguration of Barack Obama on January 21, 2009.
My, my! We’ve come a long way, Baby! A woman (WEAKER VESSEL,) in the pulpit (UNBIBLICAL,) delivering a VERY ecumenical sermon to Obama, in the presence of Hindu leaders, Buddhist leaders, and other false religious teachers – a sermon BASED ON CHEROKEE WISDOM! YIKES!!! How FALSE is that???
So you see, my “passionate bias” is to expose falsity by proclaiming “God’s bias.” I grew up under false teachings!
I’d also like to say that there are really only NINE DENOMINATIONS, not 50,000 – the Liturgical Churches (Angelicans, Presbyterians, Methodists,) and the Non-Liturgical Churches ( Anabaptists, Congregationalists, Baptists, Churches of Christ, Adventists, and Pentecostals.) Everything else are just “schisms,” or “splits” of the mainline denominations, determining their doctrinal statements based on some mixture of one or more of the mainlines.
The “Great Schism,” of course, was the Reformation Movement, led by Martin Luther, which as we all know, was a well-deserved split from the false teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. It was the birth of Protestantism. Smart move, Martin!
Generally speaking, the mainline Protestant churches mostly agree on “essential doctrines,” (about who God is, who Jesus is, Salvation, & the Afterlife,) but differ in the “non-essentials,” (such as the church as the Body of Christ, Sacraments, and other beliefs and practices.)
It is also interesting to note that “Ecclesiastical SEPARATION” involves the decisions of a church concerning its ties to other organizations, based on their theology or practices. Separatism is implied in the very word “church,” which comes from the Greek word EKKLESIA meaning “a called-out assembly.” In Jesus’ letter to the church of Pergamum, He warned against tolerating those who taught false doctrine (Revelation 2:14-15). The church was to be separate, breaking ties with heresy. A modern example of ecclesiastical separation could be a denomination’s stance AGAINST ecumenical alliances which would unite the church with apostates.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Biblical-separation.html
Something to ponder as EKKLESIA seeks unity with what may be other heretics as well.
Friday, 26. June 2009
Fuller…That’s where Chris got his degree I believe. No time to read the link at the moment, but thanks! I’m sure it will be edifying!
Saturday, 27. June 2009
You say, “We seem to pour billions into missionary work to provide food to the world, with little improvement in their standard of health and living conditions, when all it really takes is a little understanding and some seed and a bit water.” How much time have you spent living and working in third world countries Pat?
Saturday, 27. June 2009
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that Third World countries are STILL Third World countries. Not much has improved. Look at India. Look at Romania. Look at Africa. Look at Mexico. The list goes on…. There is still much famine. There is still much disease. There’s still much poverty. There are still ophaned children living in garbage dumps for survival. Some say we have virtually lost the entire continent of Africa to AIDS, and men are raping virgin children – even babies, believing if they do so, they will be healed. How effective have we been on a large scale?
The only major improvement I can see has been China, but that was not through missionary work, but through technology and our system of trade with them. I can remember the days when everything said, “Make in Hong Kong.” Now it’s “Made in China.” Hard to believe Americans are forced to buy goods from a Communist country. China now actually owns America, given that they’ve bought up the majority of government bonds. Our stocks have plummeted, our dollar value has plummeted, and our banks are scheduled for the government dole. And the only thing that hasn’t tanked is the bond market. The treasury bond market, including municiple bonds, has had a bull run of over 25 years – the longest in history. If that bubble bursts, and some say it will, we will have a collapse that will make the Great Depression look like a carnival ride.
Did you know that historically, a democratic form of government has lasted only around 200 years before it hyper-inflates and then collapes? We are there – well, past there, and people have not had their history lessons. Consider the Roman Empire, as an example. We may soon know what it’s like to be a Third World country.
It’s pretty obvious about the Third World countries though. So what is your point asking me how much time I’ve spent living and working in Third World Countries? It seems to me that you are skirting issues here.
Saturday, 27. June 2009
Ahhh…
THE NEW MYSTICS: MISSIONAL FOR DRUNKEN “SPACE CADETS”
I see. This took me to CRN – the Christian Research Network. I was thinking maybe CRN stood for Christian Radio Network – something similar to OnePlace.com – a site I frequent quite often.
And by going to this link, I see that Ekklesia has now made it into “The Museum of Idolatry” at ALiittleLeaven.com. Congraduations.
After all the negative feedback I’ve read, Chris, I have to ask you – when you prayed about entering this contest, did you really think God approved this?
I also noticed something in Andrea’s bio about praying to God as well. It was written that she heard God’s voice – His AUDIBLE voice – telling her what to do with her life.
And someone else here said he will never fully know truth.
I’ve got news for you all. The ONLY way we “hear” from God is through what He has written in His Word. THAT IS TRUTH. He stopped “talking” to us after that. He didn’t need to say anything more for us to know who He is and how we are to conduct our lives.
Only when the the Word is misinterpreted do we come up with “new revelations” from God – like four different ways to interpret a single scripture. We make stuff up – according to OUR will – to conform the Word to us, instead of us conforming to the will of God.
Trust me when I say this. You heard from the guy who masquerades as an angel of Light – not from God, but His adversary, the father of all lies.
It’s gotten pretty quiet on this website now. It is my hope and prayer that you and your followers are now prayerfully examining the TRUTH of His Word. I pray you all get over your man-centered thinking, come under the sovereign will of God, repent from your wicked ways, and make a humble and public confession here that you have done so. Get over your pride; it has led to your fall. Start looking up before you are cast into the pit of Hell.
Forget about being a seeker-sensitive “Purpose-Drivil” church and become a BIBLE-DRIVEN church where you all actually READ your Bibles. “Preach the Word” and allow the Holy Spirit convict.
And throw out your 2nd grade reading level NIVs and get a decent Bible. It’s a Bible that was grieviously mistranslated in an effort to appeal to as many “denominations” as possible – that “unity” thing. I equate ecumenism to compromise. And we CAN NOT compromise God’s Word, for to do so is heresy.
God is watching and waiting to see if you will respond to Him. And the world, thanks to the internet, is watching as well. Your controversy is spreading like wildfire. What a shame.